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Last year we hosted a debate over what is a better asset class - single-family rentals (SFR) or multi-family rentals (MFR). In this episode, we look back on the performance of our portfolios over the last year to see which asset class performed best.

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Transcript

 

Before we jump into the episode, here's a quick disclaimer about our content. The remote real estate investor podcast is for informational purposes only, and is not intended as investment advice. The views, opinions and strategies of both the hosts and the guests are their own and should not be considered as guidance from roofstock. Make sure to always run your own numbers, make your own independent decisions and seek investment advice from licensed professionals.

 

Emil:

Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. My name is Emil Shour and I got my co hosts with me today who are

 

Tom:

Tom Schneider,

 

Michael:

and Michael Albaum.

 

Emil:

And today we're gonna be doing a little bit of a look back episode. So we're slowly crawling out of the pandemic and we're going to do a look back at our single family rentals and our multifamily rentals and we're going to do a comparison How did each do during the pandemic? Alright, so let's hop into this episode.

 

Alright guys, before we hop into this theme, let's let's do quick updates. Always love hear what's going on in your portfolio. So Thomas, kick us off what's going on, man?

 

Tom:

What is going on? So not a whole heck of a lot I mentioned before have done a bunch of refinancing and big milestone, it's a new month. So the new payments came in a little bit thinner on the old cash flow because those loans are a little bit bigger, but the interest rates are a little bit lower, but net a little bit of a higher payment. So you know, getting getting used to that and still in acquisition mode, underwriting properties doing all that I'm doing the work like doing the investing work. So Go Bears? Yeah.

 

Emil:

You're in a couple markets. Right, Tom?

 

Tom:

I am. I'm in three markets, Atlanta, Pittsburgh, and Orlando, Florida. So debating adding a new one, but I don't know, I'll probably take a note from a meal and just densify densify. But I don't know we'll see. You know, I'm not limiting myself right now.

 

Michael:

And are you looking at multifamily Tom or single family?

 

Tom:

Looking at both. I am looking at both. I mean, I don't want to steal the wind from the episode but single family has been awesome. So you know, and it's simple. Great. Probably 70 30% I go 70 70% I go single family some more. But we'll see.

 

Michael:

All right. All right. All right.

 

Emil:

You anticipated my question I was gonna ask if you are going into marquee already in or if you're looking at new markets, or what's kind of your next step. So good anticipation.

 

Tom:

You know, it's such a funny double edged sword with appreciation is awesome. You know, you have these properties are appreciating value, but it's it's time for Acquisition time. It's like, oh, man, everything's appreciated a lot. There's still acquisitions to be had, but not not like the good old days. good old days, Wild West.

 

Emil:

I feel like, every real estate investor will say that for the end of time, just like the good old day like it. We're gonna be like, Oh, man, remember and remember in 2020 or 2021? Gosh,

 

Michael:

I was so cheap back then. Yeah.

 

Tom:

Here's the thing is the good old days, like always, like, I mean, we're probably in such a weird time where it's been, you know, hockey stick for a little bit, is it but it seems like it's always like four or three years ago, like we look back three years ago. Oh, man, that was great. And he looked back three years from now. Oh, that was great. Like, I think we're in a particularly weird time. But I know the good old days is always just a few years ago, no matter where,

 

Emil:

Unless you're in 2011 2012. No one was looking back to 2008 2009 2008 2009 thinking, Man, those were the good old days.

 

Tom:

Yeah, if you were buying that was the good old days. And I think it's probably more circumstance that were just such a weird stretch of 10 years, 1012 years, but that 2009 2008 it was that was one of my earlier jobs working for one of this fund that was buying and you listen literally like couldn't walk out. You couldn't what can miss a saying that I'm totally botching, like you broadside of a barn was just everything was just crazy. high cap rates. You couldn't miss Yeah, I think you You said it right. So anyways.

 

Emil:

What a time.

 

Tom:

Take the baton from me.

 

Emil:

The good old days,

 

Michael:

The true good old days.

 

Emil:

Michael, what about you, man, what's going on.

 

Michael:

So I'm in the middle of two single family flips. So I've got one out in Kansas City that's now listed on market for sale on the MLS, which is exciting. And I got another flip out in Birmingham, Alabama, that is now been listed for lease I'm going to sell that with a tenant in place as a turnkey rental. So that should hopefully get leased up. Ideally sooner rather than later. But it sounds like they've got beginning a lot of applications which is exciting. So those are kind of the two big projects I'm working on. I sold the six unit which was great. So now I'm able to focus on one of the other 11 units that I have out there.

 

I need to repave that parking lot which is a bummer. I got Notice from my insurance that they're going to cancel my insurance once I get that done here very quickly. So hoping to have that wrapped up, ASAP, and then just focusing on the development project and seeing the big bills roll in. But we're almost done, we got a big hurdle, we got some new electrical service brought in. And that was something that we were waiting on for a while, both in terms of getting the part delivered, and then some work couldn't happen inside the building until that got installed. So we're seemingly over that hump, and then just a waiting on the last of the insurance settlement to see where that cookie crumbles, so to speak.

 

Emil:

How did your insurance company find out that your parking lot needed to be paved?

 

Michael:

So they came out and did an inspection when I initially bound insurance, and like the way it works is so stupid, like, it's so backwards. So basically, you go binded insurance, you go bind with the new insurance company, they come out and do an inspection and tell you all the things you have to do in order to keep the insurance otherwise, they're going to drop you. And it seems like if they are going to be accepting you for insurability, they should be doing that inspection on the front end and say, Hey, if you want to come on board if as you need to do a, b, and c, but after they've already g otcha. Then they say oh, by the way, you need to do ABCD, whatever. So I did a bunch of that stuff. The parking lot was really expensive.

 

This was last year, or maybe two years ago. And they said, hey, you've got to do this. And I said, it's just too expensive. It just can't happen. I did everything else you've asked, but this is the one thing I can't do. They said, Okay, we'll give you till next spring, which is now 2021. And then we had a quote to get it done. And so we're now we're getting it done. But that same day that we got the quote, they came back and said, Hey, you need to have this done by today. I was like, wait, what you get like, there's got to be like, you need to be a little bit more proactive and giving folks heads up. So they extended it another month.

 

But that's the last, the last extension I'll get so it shouldn't be a huge, huge deal. But if it's a couple grand, we got a quote to rip out the whole thing and repave it and bring all new asphalt that was like 15,000. So we're getting away with this is a great example. Repair versus replace. The repair aspect repair option seems to be a lot more beneficial. Just more cost effective right now. And it's a it's a parking lot. It's not like a you know, as a parking lot. Yeah, like it's not, it's gonna add zero noi at the end of the day. So which is a bummer. But again, it's one of the things you have to do.

 

Emil:

Yep, just like busted pipes.

 

Michael:

What do you got going on Emil?

 

Emil:

For me, I got some good news. I got some good news. Recently, we, my single family home in St. Louis was up for renewal, the tenant agreed to a 2% increase in rent as a single family home, which is going to kind of play into this episode will be a good segue. So they're staying put agreed to 2% increase. So that's getting signed. And then I think I've been talking about the triplex unit for a while we've got a couple bids in. I actually have a call with my property manager right after we get off this podcast to finalize and start moving forward with that turn which should take about four weeks to get done. So a little bit longer than I was expecting but.

 

Michael:

Nice. Do you want to save it for the episode? Do you want to tell everybody kind of what the bid looks like and what the rent increase you think you might get is?

 

Emil:

I think we should I think we should make that its own episode. I think it'd be fun to maybe do like a post mortem. Like, here's how it all went down. I'd love your guys's feedback on like, what would you have done differently? versus like how did it go? I think that'd be a cool episode for us to do in the future.

 

Michael:

Awesome. Love it keep everybody in suspense cliffhanger. We're gonna start calling you cliffhanger Emil.

 

Emil:

All right. All right. All right. So what I like to do man you know I work in Marketing so you know you got to keep people on their toes got to keep them coming back.

 

Tom:

Create the urgency!

 

Michael:

Yeah, scarcity.

 

Emil:

It's like there's a word for like open loop there's something it's like basically a cliffhanger where you just keep like, anyway let's get on with this episode.

 

Michael:

Yeah. I get so many great isms.

 

Emil:

Alright, so we're gonna be talking about basically how how did our different properties perform single family verses multifamily. Tom, you are almost all single family. Michael, you are predominantly multifamily. And I'm at this point basically split right down the middle of three single family houses and then a triplex. So three and three. So I think it'd just be fun for us to talk about, like, you know, how did things end up? Tom, you're our single family. Master why don’t you kick us off. How did it go for you the last year, year and a half?

 

Tom:

Yeah. Last 12 months have been remarkably boring. I mean, we talked about it kind of expecting this big cliff. Boring in a very good way. We expect this cliff of kind of like vacancies and not being able to pay and I'll let you guys speak to your portfolio when you speak but like, I don't know, at least within the properties I have there there was no issue. I did have one turn, but it was kind of a more or less like a scheduled turn. It wasn't like because of any like hardships, it was just because like the people were moving. I had two renewals, the other ones were on longer than one year contracts. And both of them renewed at a higher rate one of them at like a pretty significantly higher rate, it was like seven and a half percent increase or something on the rent, which is just like the best as a as a as a landlord.

 

So, a really ho hum, boring in the best of ways, kind of a year saw a ton of appreciation. I when I refinanced four of the properties i as i mentioned earlier in the episode and on some previous episodes, and even after doing like a pretty aggressive cash out refi I'm still like under 70% loan to value and receiving these you know notes from open doors and these I buyers of like, Hey, we want to buy your property at like above what I refinanced it at SFR has been a total home run.

 

Not a lot of like downside to be said. But you know, with with, as we've talked about in previous episodes, you know you have these honeypot of a year, you know and they are they're going to help cover the years where the roof needs to be replaced, or the H fac does. So it was super positive year with regards to rental appreciation, price appreciation, still being disciplined, you know, not getting too over my tips by getting too big of a cash out refi. But all in all a lovely boring ho hum year.

 

Michael:

That's, that's awesome. And has there been one particular market in the market that you're in that you've seen has just blown the others out of the water? Are they performing fairly equivalently.

 

Tom:

So Orlando has just been doing really well. And so is Atlanta, a smaller market that I'm in up in the Midwest in Pittsburgh, hasn't seen the type of appreciation. And I mean, there's a there's a lot to be said to, to having sort of a balanced view, and not just chasing cash flow. Because these these properties have appreciated so much more and so much faster. With these big eye buyers coming in, they're just driving the prices up. So the bigger markets have performed better on an appreciation wise, and I'd say not too big of a difference on with regards to to rent, but I mean, meaningfully, probably, you know, in the last year, they've been pre increased in price, probably 15%. Were these other properties that I have in up in Pittsburgh, you know, they've maybe they've been they've increased maybe 5%, which is still like, awesome. Like, if you can do that, you know, rinse and repeat all day. But the bigger markets have just achieved these just massive appreciation.

 

Michael:

Yeah, that's awesome. And just to give some of our listeners a little bit of perspective, I want to put some numbers to to all of this. So when we talk about cash flow versus appreciation, we have investors that are biased one towards, you know, towards one or the other usually. And I've always argued that cash flow is great for today, you can live on it, it's tangible dollars right now, but appreciation is what generates really massive wealth. And so if you've been seeing 15% appreciation over the last year, let's just take a number and call it 150 grand. And if we take 15% of that, that's $22,500. So if we take 70% of that, which is about what you could cash out in terms of a cash out refi, that's $15,750. So you might be how you may have the ability to tap into an additional call at $16,000 at the end of one year via appreciation versus on the cash flow side of things. You might walk away on $150,000 property with I don't know two grand in cash flow.

 

And so while Yes, I would argue that they're both important cash flow is a great defense, cash flow is usable dollars today, being able to take an extra $16,000 out of that property and go put it into something else can be so much more impactful, long term to generate really massive wealth. So I think it's important just to keep that in mind, especially when we're talking about such unbelievable appreciation numbers when we have seen rents stay strong, but not they're not going through the roof. Like the appreciation value side is.

 

Tom:

That's a great point. I mean, there's a saying I think I've tried to say before, it's like you know, a smart rat has multiple hole holes to run to, you know, one whole being the appreciation one whole being the cash flow on the yield. And I don't know in my experience so far like the appreciation side has been definitely out weighed where a lot of the return has come in through that, you know,

 

Tom:

Are you referencing what we're talking about before the episode how I was saying, I look like a wet rat? Is that what reminded you? A wet rat has multiple holes to go to?

 

Tom:

Yeah, yeah. Michael has some, some Fabio long hair. This is probably more relevant for the YouTube watch. Right. And he said he felt like a wet cat. I think it was.

 

Michael:

A wet rat.

 

Tom:

Yeah, but a smart rat has multiple holes to run to they you know, and the equivalent investor, you know, running towards a both appreciation or cash flow.

 

Michael:

Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

 

Emil:

Tom, you might have mentioned it, but you have any vacancies over the last year and a half?

 

Tom:

I had one. Yeah. So I had a one. As I said, it wasn't tenant. It wasn't like, you know, payment related. It was just somebody was moving. It was maybe slightly longer than I had written like in vacancy, like, in pro forma wise, I'll maybe estimate like a month of vacancy. And I think this was closer to 45 days, but it released a slight increase in the rate, in the rental amount. But there was some vacancy. But again, it wasn't necessarily pandemic related. And there ended up being a little bit of an increase in the amount of what the rent was.

 

Emil:

Did you have any speaking on late payments? Did you have any tenants who had late payments had to catch up anything like that?

 

Tom:

Yeah, I've got one tenant who has kind of a funny schedule. So we just more or less like move their payment schedule, like, around like, two weeks or something just because of like the timing of like, when they're getting paid. So like, if you look at the balance sheet within my portal, have my property manager it looks like they're always a little bit behind, but they always pay regularly and we just shifted on when they're paying. But no, there's no beyond that thing, which is, you know, not a problem. No real issues around cash flow and payments,

 

Michael:

Noice!

 

Emil:

All in all pretty solid year and a half. I mean, real estate investing, speaking obviously.

 

Tom:

Yep.

 

Michael:

You didn't feel like the grass was greener on the multifamily side of things this year. Hmm. Yeah,

 

Tom:

I like to dabble in some stuff. So. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if I go mid family, but it's like, part of me is like it is not broken. Like why fix it? Why?

 

Michael:

Because it's a better toy.

 

Tom:

Yeah. The other saying though, is if it's if it's not broken, you can still fix it….. There's a fox in that house. There's a cat in the Okay, anyways. I might dabble in the multifamily just because I feel like I want to exactly if I'm a dabbler. Anyways, we should we should switch it to someone else. Emil, are you the next right person? Because we're kind of transitioning to all multifamily.

 

Emil:

I want to I want to give Michael the floor cuz he's a heavier multifamily. And then I'm a 5050 with my current portfolio mix. So yeah. Michael you go next?

 

Michael:

Yeah, so we talked about it last year, probably around April, when things got really, really crazy. With a pandemic here in the States. And everybody was predicting, like Tom, you mentioned this wave of non payment or late payments, and all these, all these types of things. So I was bracing for the worst, I think, like so many other investors. And I was just really clenching my teeth and waiting for this tidal wave to hit and it never did, thankfully, and I'm knocking on wood here that it continues to go that way. But it's been very smooth sailing, for the most part.

 

So I had some really high end units that I had just finished renovating right when the pandemic hit. And so I was really nervous and having a little bit of issue getting them leased up. Because again, they were on the higher end for that particular market. And so we gave a couple of concessions, we lowered the rent a little bit, to incentivize people to move in, we were able to get them filled. And then renewals came around a couple months ago. And I said, Hey, we got to get these things closer up to market. And so we were able to get seven to 10% increases on pretty much all of those across the board, which has been really exciting. And then I've had several other multifamily properties that have had a couple vacancies. And as those tenants move out, and we turn them with relatively basic turns, we're getting another seven to 10%, pretty much across the board.

 

So 7% is kind of that the bottom floor of what I'm shooting for rental increases, both on new leases as well as on renewals. And thankfully, we've had a lot of folks renew, because just the rents in these markets that I'm in have gone up and so the deal that they're getting even at the rental increase is still really great.

 

So again, that's something to be thinking about for other landlords is the cost of getting a new tenant is often so much more expensive than people realize. So between the property management fee that you'll pay for a new tenant placement fee and the turn costs and the cleaning costs and the vacancy when you factor all of that in, even at a higher rent, you can often still be behind as opposed to just keeping the rent the same, or giving a slight increase to still stay under market rent, but above where you currently were.

 

And I mean, I know you and I have talked about this at length. And I know we've talked about it on other episodes, but I really encourage people, I felt like the Hawks, I really encourage, really, I would really, really, really encourage people to go through that exercise. Even if you don't have something coming up for renewal, just, you know, play that game and say, Okay, if I could get $100 a month rent increase on this $1,000 a month unit, that's a 10% increase. But what does that truly cost me if I have a month of vacancy, it turned cost here, property management placement fee here, you'll start to realize, I think that in most cases, it doesn't necessarily make sense, which is very counterintuitive. So again, go through the exercise.

 

But so I was I was fortunate enough that the rents have gone up, they've really kind of skyrocketed around me, which has been made it very easy to both keep folks in place as well as get rental increases at the same time. So I've been very fortunate I have not had a lot of vacancy, where I've been really getting hammered is on my multifamily renovation project, because the cost of materials have just gone through the roof. So this is one area where being in multifamily has just totally sucked, to put it bluntly.

 

So if you're building homes, you've probably feeling that too. But from I would argue, I would assume most single family investors are not doing new construction, they're just doing maintenance or rehabs or repairs. And on a single family, that tends to be a manageable margin for the additional cost of materials. When you're physically constructing 15 units inside of a commercial property. I mean, it just it's a bummer. So but again, overall very, very happy with the vacancy, very happy with the rental increases and very happy with the amount of rent that's been received and lack of non payment and lack of late rents.

 

It's funny where I did feel it is in my single families. The two single families that I own, that are long term buy and hold are in California, Southern California and an expensive market. And both of those had issues paying. And so we gave a rent reduction to one person that was the condo I owned, which I sold earlier this year. And then in the single family, the true single family, they had issues paying and so we gave them a break, and they're still quite behind. So my property managers looking at getting them put onto a payment plan. And also looking at getting them some rental assistance, because there's several programs out there, you just have to apply for them. But I had that was pretty interesting that really the folks that struggled the most were but again, I think it makes sense in that it's a very expensive market.

 

Emil:

And California shut down a lot more than other places, right. So I'm sure people were more negatively affected by the shutdowns in California versus, you know, in the Midwest where they didn't have as strict of shutdowns. And that was it.

 

Michael:

I think that absolutely, absolutely

 

Emil:

Interesting. Okay, so, yeah, you already answered kinda all the questions. I was gonna ask Tom, like, did you have late payments and this and that, that's really interesting that it was on your single families and that they were the California ones.

 

Tom:

On the construction side, too. I mean, I thought that was really interesting in that, you know, with with multifamily there oftentimes is more Rnm if the leases perhaps are shorter in and then on the other side of the matrix, if you're doing more development work versus turnkey, like there was way more pain in that just because of the supply chain and materials costs and all of that. It you know, it's it's like a matrix with all of this. It's okay, single family multifamily. Okay, more turnkey versus more development. And I think like in that quadrant, it's that the more development stuff is felt a little bit more pain from all the secondary effects that we're seeing from country going through a pandemic. very insightful. very insightful. Michael.

 

Michael:

Pretty insightful for a wet rat, huh?

 

Tom:

Yeah, pretty insightful. For a wet racket, the new. I'm gonna I'm gonna start giving more compliments. You know, I think that's uh, oh, that's very good questions you had earlier.

 

Michael:

One thing I will say on kind of, because Tom, you're talking about the appreciation on the single family side of things. So on the multifamily side….

 

Tom:

Good memory Michael, you're right!

 

Michael:

That’s too good. On the multifamily side, there has been a significant amount of appreciation as well. And when we talk about appreciation in the multifamily space, we typically would call it a cap rate compression. And so we see cap rates are either increasing or decreasing, expanding, compressing, and so when you have a cap rate compression, the cost to a new buyer increases because the equation is noi, which is net operating income. Which is simply your annual income minus your expen ses, not including your mortgage payment divided by the cap rate equals your sale price. So when we decrease the denominator and make it a smaller decimal, I know this is really math heavy episode, but the sale price increases. So play around with those numbers if you're not familiar with the concept.

 

But basically, I've had numerous agents reach out to me in some of the local markets and say, Hey, are you interested in selling cap rates are going crazy. And so I have a property that I purchased in 2018, it was a five unit, I bought it for a song, put a little bit of work into it. And I think I've talked about it in the past. But the thing cash flows like an absolute machine, I've got some really great long term debt on it, it's a 10 year fixed note on it amortize that 25 years. And for the commercial world, five years, 10 years is fairly common in terms of fixed, and it's at three and a quarter percent interest rate, which is really, really awesome in the commercial side of things.

 

And it's, it's doubled in value, basically. So over that three and a half year period. So things are very, very hot in the multifamily space as well. And part of that was just because it's in a good market. And part of that was because we did a bunch of work and manipulated the noi, and it really stabilized the building.

 

Tom:

Is this the one that you're you're you're you're selling because of the appreciation that you got?

 

Michael:

No. So that was a six unit. And that was one we rehabbed, we bought it as a buy and hold rehabbed it, but then just decided that it wasn't it was kind of a pain in the butt. It's kind of a headache. And so we said the market that area isn't as exciting as we thought it was. And we can just make a quick buck on this. I can pay back my cash partner, get them their money back plus profit, and I can walk with some profit too. And just spend my time, energy and focus elsewhere. Thanks, guys.

 

Michael:

All right, Emil, the 5050 man,

 

Emil:

So my single family has been more like Tom been pretty awesome. So I talked about it on a prior episode, I had the Indianapolis single family that I did a cash out refi we pulled out all our cash and then some. And because we lowered our rate like a point and a quarter or monthly mortgage payment only went up like 2030 bucks. So cash flow wasn't affected too much. So basically did a full cash out refi just thanks to Mr. market, which was awesome. That tenant also renewed their lease recently for a two to 3% increase. So that's been great.

 

The Jacksonville property that one we thought the tenant was going to leave like a couple months into the pandemic, it looked like they were moving for a job or something. Turns out they ended up staying at like a very slight bump. I think it was like a 2% rent increase as well.

 

And then St. Louis, which I just mentioned at the beginning of the episode, we just got a thumbs up that they renewed their lease at a 2% raise. So all the single families I've had all three of those, they've had the same tenant since I bought them so they're going on like three, four years of having same tenant which is awesome. Gotta love that about single family.

 

Michael:

Awesome.

 

Emil:

No issues with payment. I mean, one tenant had let like early on, I think they paid like two three weeks late on one payment and then they caught up and everything was good. So it's been ho hum in a very nice simple way on single family. On the triplex, which I bought in November, we had our tenant just leave. I think it was a probe knows may they just, we just found out when we were doing some work that the unit was vacant, like they just left in the middle of the night or whatever. They took all their stuff. They didn't trash the place but they just left without giving notice.

 

And it was funny I asked my property manager I was like is this is this normal? And they're like honestly, we've had this happen like two or three other times and it's been only during like the last couple months in multifamily around St. Louis so seems like more pandemic related for like smaller multifamily units that they've managed that they've seen this but again, you consider two or three times to happen. That's very, very small. Like we just got bad luck. Not the worst thing in the world. This thing is way more under market rent. I think they were renting at like 495 a month. We're going to be doing some renovation I'll tease a little bit of this future episode we're talking about I'm thinking with the renovations we're gonna do probably get it up to around 650.

 

Michael:

So this way you didn't have to pay cash for keys.

 

Emil:

Exactly. I mean, in in Missouri, you don't have to do that. It's a It's very simple. You can get once the tenants lease is over, you can give a 30 day notice to ask them to leave. In fact, so that same property there is a triplex one side it used to be a four Plex, they converted one side into a townhouse. So it's like a top and upstairs downstairs townhouse. That person they said they were not going to renew their lease, but they didn't give us a date on when so they've kind of just been month to month for a while and because we don't want this to drag on into winter. Where it's much harder to rent and you don't get as much rent, we're issuing just a 30 day noticing a essential month month and not planning on renewing, just asking that they leave.

 

So it's one of the nice things about Missouri, you know, very landlord friendly rules. It's not like we're kicking them out, we're giving them a full 30 day notice. And we extended them a renewal and they just chose not to accept it. So we've asked them to leave, which is nice, much harder. I think California, everyone knows can do that stuff.

 

Michael:

Very different beast. Yeah.

Emil:

So that's, it's it hasn't been bad at all. I mean, you know, people get up and leave. It's part of it. I'm not gonna say that's just a multifamily thing. So overall, I think it's been nice. The single families like Tom said, all the appreciation has been amazing. you couple that with low interest rates, and you get to do cool things like a cash out refi and basically not change your payment, and pull out all your money. So single family had a really good, as we all know, we've talked about so yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad I have a little bit of both. I'll say that.

 

Michael:

If you had to choose one that you were more thankful to be in is a multi or single family over the last 12 months.

 

Emil:

Single Family for sure.

 

Michael:

Single Family. Yeah,

 

Emil:

I've heard of less people having issues with their single family, lot of appreciation, basically, in every single market. Whereas multifamily I've heard more people saying, you know, we've had issues with collecting payment none of us have, which has been great. But that from other investors I've talked to seems like multifamily more. So that issue if it did

 

Tom:

Not super related, I just kind of like a weird Rnm repairs and maintenance things on one of the units. I feel like I've been very much Oh, you know, you know, blue skies and butterflies and all kinds of good stuff. I just had a, a break in on one of the units. Thankfully, everyone was okay. But it's like, Yeah, I don't know, they just sent some pictures of like, the door, like kicked in. I think it was a nobody was home, thankfully. But it was, uh, you know, that. I think everybody's okay.

 

But, you know, still still, even though it's, you know, you know, positive, there's still like, some costs and like bad and getting scary stuff, you know, happening on on some of the properties. I don't know, there's just, I just looked at this the other day, where they were sending someone out there to fix everything and get it all right, but I don't want to, you know, make the illusion that like, everything is always like so. So great. I know, there's things that things that happen and Yeah, I know, I just made me think of it. It was the first time I've ever seen that. And one of the units that kind of repairs and maintenance thing. Again, thankfully, yeah, everyone. Okay, but there's still, you know, stuff that stuff that comes up.

 

Michael:

Yeah,

 

Emil:

Great point, it ain't all rosy.

 

Michael:

And so for that time that you reported to your insurance, you're just paying out of pocket is is lower than your deductible?

 

Tom:

I've never reported that kind of thing to my insurance, I should because it might as well as like, put it towards my deductible, right?

 

Michael:

So the insurance property insurance works a little bit differently, like as compared to medical insurance, so it's a per occurrence deductible. So if you have $1,000 deductible, and you have a $500 repair, they're not covering it, and they'll actually they'll put it on like your oftentimes, they'll put it on your like permanent record that, hey, this, they had a claim but didn't didn't wasn't covered because of lower than deductible. So I always check to see what the repair is going to cost. And compare that against my deductible. And if it's way lower than my deductible, or even around my deductible, I just eat the cost I don't even tell the insurance company because I don't want that to merit on my permanent record. versus if it's way higher than that deductible. And you know, it's gonna be sometimes you can't wait for a repair quote, like my younger brother just had a big pipe leak and the problem is I call the insurance is gonna be big so he you know, of course called him he got a repair person out there immediately and it was covered.

 

But for breaking stuff, it's normally changing the locks replacing a door, the lowest property deductible I've seen is like 500 bucks. And so that's likely going to be the repair to that is likely going to be less than your deductible. So if it were me, I probably wouldn't even report it.

 

Tom:

Yeah, I wasn't planning on it, but I never even crossed my mind of doing that. But I like it good. Got it. Got to take away Yeah. On that got that dollar that per occurrence. structure.

 

Michael:

Yeah, yeah.

 

Emil:

All right, guys. anything. Anything else? Add or is this a good spot for us to wrap this one up?

 

Michael:

Yeah, I know. This was great. I mean, it's awesome to hear that the single family has been going gangbusters. That's what we hear about in the news. And that's what we're hearing from from you all. So it's very, very exciting stuff. We'll have to do another post mortem in 12 months to see who will reign champion the next time bum bum bum!

 

Tom:

I like it, the mid year episode mid year check in episode. I like it.

 

Emil:

I like a good idea. Alright guys, thanks for sharing your experience love episodes like these where we just kind of dive into stuff that's been going on in our personal portfolios, was surfing with a buddy of mine and he was like so what's your what's your podcast about I was like, you know, we kind of just talk a lot about what's going on in our, our own lives and worlds and yeah, we'll you know, we'll talk about high level stuff, but it's a lot about just our own experience. And he was like, that's really cool. You don't hear a lot of podcasts like that. So yes, I don't know. I don't know what else.

 

Tom: You're complimenting. There we go!

 

Michael:

It's it's that a lot of that but also like a lot of isms, you know, so if you're looking for some decent isms come check us out.

 

Emil:

Yes, Uncle Tom's isms?

 

Tom:

Yeah, making up isms: it’s a rat in the hen house. A wet rat.

 

Emil:

Alright, guys, ready here. Alright, so we're gonna do that future episode. And if you want to make sure you don't miss out on it, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel if you're listening on YouTube. Or if you're listening on your favorite podcast, make sure you subscribe there. Happy investing everybody. check you out in a future episode.