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Addressing Racism in Clinical Licensing Exams: An Interview with Ben Caldwell and Tony Rousmaniere Curt and Katie interview Dr. Ben Caldwell and Dr. Tony Rousmaniere about the problems with the Clinical Licensing exams for therapists. We discuss the recent report from ASWB on their pass rates as well as the concerns about the EPPP2 implementation, the poor predictive validity and utility of these licensing exams, and suggestions for what to do with our licensing processes given these concerns. Transcripts for this episode will be available at mtsgpodcast.com! In this podcast episode, we talk about recent data that licensing exams are racist Friends of the show, Dr. Ben Caldwell and Dr. Tony Rousmaniere wrote a white paper in response to a recent report from the ASWB that shows their licensing exams appear to be racist. We wanted to talk with them about their calls to discontinue these exams. How are the clinical exams racist? ·      The number one predictor of whether you pass the exam is your race ·      The structure of the exam seems to advantage those with more affinity to these types of tests (i.e., those who are educationally privileged) ·      There may also be content or language concerns leading to these disparities What is the purpose of the clinical exams for therapists? ·      Said that it is to be an assessment of knowledge and training, consumer protection, etc. ·      Little predictive validity (of competence or consumer safety) for these tests ·      The test is an unfair hurdle for folks without academic privilege ·      There does not seem to be a need for this test (due to the rigor of training and supervised experience) What would be better alternatives to requiring a clinical exam? ·      Alternate pathways that some states have taken ·      Addressing workforce shortages by allowing folks who have gotten through every other requirement (aside from the clinical exam) to be licensed ·      Just don’t require a clinical exam What can therapists do to try to get rid of licensing exams? ·      Advocacy to state boards to not implement EPPP2 ·      Other advocacy related to master’s level clinical exams ·      Organizations to #StopASWB and address the EPPP2 Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We’ve pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! White Paper: Clinical Licensing Exams in Mental Health Care by Benjamin E. Caldwell, PsyD and Tony Rousmaniere, PsyD ASWB Report on Social Work Licensing Exam Pass Rates Very Bad Therapy BenCaldwellLabs.com SentioCC.org Stop the Adoption of EPPP2 Website ASWB: End Discriminatory Social Work Licensing Exams A sample letter you can send to your licensing board will be on our show notes at mtsgpodcast.com. Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Fixing Mental Healthcare in America Unlearning Very Bad Therapy Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Patreon Buy Me A Coffee Podcast Homepage Therapy Reimagined Homepage Link tree: https://linktr.ee/therapyreimagined Modern Therapist’s Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/