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“Making improvements is challenging. But we can't give up and we've got to learn how to do it better.” “Speak, engage, help, be helped. Be part of society. Be an optimist towards the fact that people can change, that people can learn.”  John Pepper and Ursula Burns sit down for a candid conversation on race, understanding and the state of our society’s devolving discourse. Ursula Burns was one of Americas first Black female CEOs, and John Pepper was the former Chairman of both P&G and the Walt Disney Company. This is a conversation among two of corporate America’s most celebrated CEOS - longtime friends - have been having for years - and wanted to bring us along for the journey.  For Black History Month, we’re sharing conversations from Raman’s other podcast “Learnings from Leaders” where we have candid mentorship style conversations - with business leaders, entrepreneurs, and philanthropists, many of whom are alums of Procter & Gamble - where many industry leaders got their start with a foundation of purpose, values, and principles.  LEARN MORE John Pepper: https://pepperspectives.blogspot.com/ Ursula Burns: https://hbr.org/2021/07/im-here-because-im-as-good-as-you Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices