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What does it take to write a truly useful book? How do you measure and optimize reader engagement? Our guest today is Rob Fitzpatrick, author of The Mom Test and entrepreneur. You’ll hear Rob’s take on traditional publishing vs self-publishing, customer interviews, testing, iteration cycles, book marketing, reader profiles, and his DEEP writing framework. Podcast feed: subscribe to https://feeds.simplecast.com/4MvgQ73R in your favorite podcast app, and follow us on iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Podcasts. Show Notes The Mom Test, Workshop Survival Guide — Rob’s books DEEP — Rob’s framework for writing (Desirable, Effective, Engaging and Polished) Authority — a book by Nathan Barry The E-myth Revisited — a book by Michael E. Gerber Sense a Respond Press, Rosenfeld Media — tech-themed publishers The Tiny MBA — a book by Alex Hillman The Brain Audit — a book by Sean D’Souza Alexander Osterwalder, Yves Pigneur — the authors of Business Model Generation who invested heavily in illustrations for their book writeusefulbooks.com — Rob’s website Follow Rob on Twitter or email him at rob@robfitz.com Today’s Sponsor This episode is brought to you by Userlist — a lifecycle messaging tool for your SaaS product. At Userlist, our mission is to make your founder journey more enjoyable and less overwhelming. That’s why we built an email automation tool that does exactly what you need. No more, no less. Manage your users, segment them, and get in touch throughout their journey — all based on their behavior. Try Userlist free whenever you’re ready at userlist.com. Interested in sponsoring an episode? Learn more here. Leave a Review Reviews are hugely important because they help new people discover this podcast. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please leave a review on iTunes.  Here’s how.