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Brad: Almost every couple, there is a period of ambiguity, that uncertainty that they go through. Are we going to stay together or are we going to be done? I want to spend a few moments just talking about this, the most important things that effect ambiguity. And I would say on this, it is really the factors that influence uncertainty for a spouse to choose to stay and factors that affect the spouse who is going to leave. I want to just go over these because they can help save your marriage; help you guys work through this a little bit more on what the spouse who had the affair is thinking and the spouse who was betrayed, what they are considering. And these are things that I hear, by no means is this list exhaustive. I have got 20 different things here, there could easily be 40 things but I just want to go through this. One of the things that is really important for injured spouses that affects if they want to stay or go, is the amount of deception involved by the one who had the affair; the amount of deception that they used to cover their tracks. Were you lying to me face to face? I've kind of felt like something was a little off. Did you lie to your spouse when this was happening? That is going to affect your ability to trust in their ambiguity. Morgan: Kind of your blatant lies. Brad: Yeah did they approach you? I feel like you may be cheating, is everything okay between us? Morgan: Oh no, no, not at all. Brad: No I am happily married, we are okay. You know a couple months later you find out that they have been cheating. That is going to affect your 'should we stay or go'. Morgan: Right they are going to go back to that moment. Another one would be, if it was witnessed by the injured spouse as it actually happened, as it physically happened, if they saw you with them--if they saw it, that could really influence their ambiguous feelings as to whether they should stay or go or if it should even remain intact. So witnessing the event is a big one. Brad: Yeah and Morgan that's very important. If you actually physically saw the-- what was happening between the two people, that's going to affect you. And what I am talking Page 2 of 6 about specifically is sex. You saw them having sex; that's going to affect if you want to stay or go. How much the injured spouse feels like they are being lied to? How much honesty is there? That's really what I am talking about. You know are you being honest with me? Morgan: Do I know what honesty looks like on your face? Brad: Yeah, how can I read you, how can I trust you? Are you being honest with me right now? Morgan: Hmm hmm. Another one would be, what the marriage was like before the affair. Was there a negative circle that was happening before you even discovered this or before it even led to an affair, right Brad? Brad: Hmm hmm. Morgan: That's a big one. Brad: That is super important. Morgan: Hmm hmm. Brad: You know Morgan along with that is the uncertainty of the spouse who's been betrayed, if it will happen again or do they know--what kind of reassurance do they have of, will it happen again? As long as that-- it's a huge question in their mind, they are going to be uncertain about staying or going. Morgan: Right, especially if this wasn't the first time they discovered that you had cheated. That's a big deal. The other one, the sincerity--the 7th one, the sincerity and remorse of the involved spouse will determine the level of uncertainty about the future of the injured spouse. Brad: Hmm hmm. Yeah Morgan, I would-- that's a very good one. You know how sincere, how remorseful are they? Do they care about me? And that really goes both ways because sometimes I have worked with people who had an affair--and I want to really make this really an exclamation point with what I am trying to say here. I have Page 3 of 6 seen people who have had an affair, who are very ambiguous and planning on leaving, they were totally burned out and they were having an affair because they were done with their marriage and pretty much ready to go. Morgan: Was that kind of an exit. Brad: Yeah, they were exiting the marriage, but one of the reasons they stayed in the marriage was because they had kids, but there was no emotional connection. And what helped them get the emotional connection back, is when they saw the one that they had hurt, saw how much they really love them and wanted to make it work. So when the person who had the affair saw the one they betrayed really care for them after their affair was made known, that is what help them choose to stay in the marriage. Morgan: Kind of re-engage. Brad: Yeah and that has happened a lot. And so yeah that sincerity and remorse, just knowing you are cared for, that is really what that is saying. I care about you and you have to show your sincerity and remorse, there is no shortcuts with that. Morgan another thing is, has the one who's been betrayed, the injured spouse, been betrayed before in a previous relationship. Morgan: Yeah, that would really put someone on edge, definitely a human lie detector at that point. It has happened to me before, how can I trust that it is not going to happen with you and if you are doing that, if you are betraying me, it's not as much of a surprise I think. The next one, the attitudes of family and friends who know about the affair, you know what are their attitudes? Are they encouraging you to try to work out your relationship or just encouraging you to leave? Brad: Yeah are they friendly towards your marriage? That can be a key one. Does the injured spouse have children with the betrayer? That affects uncertainty. Because we are getting low on time, I am going to sort through some of these. Religious views about divorcing your marriage, that's important. How much has the negative cycle affected the couple’s ability to discuss it (the affair) or even feel close? So there is a negative cycle that happens before the affair and obviously there is a negative cycle that affects the couple's ability to recover. Morgan: And to discuss the affair. Page 4 of 6 Brad: Hmm hmm. And if the injured spouse feels like they are too old to meet someone new, they will be more inclined to work things out, that's also a factor. Another factor is for the injured spouse is, is the betrayer getting help? If they are a sex addict or a philander, are they getting help for this? Am I seeing some real changes inside of them? If as long as there is a huge question mark around sex addiction or the morality or the values or the lifestyle of philander, as long as there is not any progression, there is no visible help being made or changes being made, people are going to be a little bit more uncertain about staying after they have been betrayed. Morgan: Right. Right that makes sense. What about the involved spouse? Brad: Yeah Morgan, the involved spouse, there is a few things for them as well that affect that level of ambiguity that is in them, that uncertainty about seeing and working it out. Number one I would say is the quality of the marriage before the affair- that's super important. How do I know that things will be different? And many times they want to leave because they don't know that. How deep was their feelings for the affair partner or how deep are they currently for the affair partner? Some people get stuck in that limerence which we have talked about. How long and how deep was the relationship with the affair partner? How long did this affair go on? How deep did it get? And I would even include with that, is how much fighting has gone on since the affair was discovered. That's an important part of choosing to work it out because people can really feel helpless and very hopeless. Morgan: Right, really stuck in that negative cycle too. Brad: Other factors that go with this, is does the betrayer have kids with their spouse at home? Does the betrayer have their own kids with their spouse who they cheated on? That's going to make them more likely to want to work it out. Religious views about divorcing their marriage and if the involved spouse feels like they are too old--and here's--and this is also important Morgan, if the involved spouse feels like they are too old to meet someone new, they will be more inclined to work things out. And you know Morgan this is so important for both, is both people need to know that they are cared about, that their spouse does love them, that they really are cared about? That's significant towards working this out, towards ambiguity. But those are some factors that influence ambiguity and we have discussed the, kind of the psychology of the betrayer, the mindset of someone who is having an affair; the thought process, where they are at Page 5 of 6 in their marriage. Affairs do not happen almost... Morgan: In a bubble. Brad: You know well most of the time in a healthy marriage, in a good marriage, sometimes people mistakenly think they are in a good marriage because there is not any conflict, we have good communication but they are not really communicating. Morgan: About wants and needs. Brad: Yeah well they are not really emotionally engaged with each other. They are really good roommates maybe. And people want to know that their desired and wanted and really cared for and when that's uncertain, that's when affairs happen, when that's uncertain in a person's mind, they are more likely to cheat. Morgan: They begin to care less about the marriage. Brad: Hmm hmm. Yeah they begin to care less about maintaining that relationship for emotional reasons. Morgan: And that usually happens over time, wouldn't you agree or could it be...? Brad: It can, it depends, it varies. Morgan: Okay. Brad: Well thank you, you have been listening to how to recover from an affair with Brad and Morgan Robinson. Morgan: Have a great week guys, thanks for listening