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Hannah and I start off nasal, due to hay fever. We discuss routine, the importance of moving and dust. Hannah describes enclosing herself in the work and making a complete environment in the spare room. We discuss negative space, temporary structures and continual transformations, using the crook of the elbow and the space between the knees as places of resistance. We talk about layering, sculpture, flatness, and using domesticity alongside the monumental. We discuss having the courage to dance when no-one can see you and touch on muscular shifts and language to talk about movement. We talk about Yvonne Rainer and points of connection and why the word illustrate is loaded. Hannah describes the balance of her usual life, working in a gallery alongside her art making and we talk about discipline. Hannah ends on hair dressing podcasts, being grateful and not wasteful and on corners and not columns. Images: Desk image. (Work in progress) Links:  https://www.hannah-hughes.com/ Instagram: _h_annah_hughes Material Immaterial publication curated by Rodrigo Orrantia is available soon: https://www.rodrigoorrantia.com/selected-projects/material-immaterial/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/emma-cousin/support