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Holly Stevenson, Charlie Gray and I talk about their creative environment and how it has changed in terms of their routine and what they are able to make. We touch on their son's cancelled GCSES and how they are as a family. They talk about what they are up to now, Charlie archiving  and discovering gems in the process and Holly, treating it as writing residency to revisit her draft novel. We discuss Freud, jade green, ashtrays and cigars, light and a sponge bob square pants phone. Charlie tells us about going after characters that personally interest him to make shoots happen and how much of himself and his ideas are invested in these images. Holly talks about some of her postponed exhibitions and they both discuss the characters in their work. They end on the delight of dogs and birds.   Image: 'Robert De Niro’ + ’She’s Unstubbable’  Links: Instagram @holly__stevenson   http://www.holly-stevenson.co.uk https://carolinefisherprojects.org https://www.sidmotiongallery.co.uk/the-south-bermondsey-art-trail/ https://www.jgmgallery.com/thecollectorsroom and  instagram @charliegray https://charlie-gray.com/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/emma-cousin/support